Editorial Notice:
After a long and unplanned hiatus during which UEN experienced a serious loss of data going back about 7 months, I am attempting an update with a fresh article (and hoping it stays put).
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On October 20, 2009, Etsy announced a change to its DOs & DON’Ts (D&Ds), which are an extension of the Etsy TOU. In addition to a Storque article (authored by Etsy CustomerCare, stellaloella, and TechUpdates) highlighting major changes or clarifications, it also opened a dedicated forum thread in which community members were given a sneak peek at the new version, and invited to discuss and/or make suggestions, in advance of it going into effect.
Excerpted from the Storque:
As you will see, most policies remain the same. In many areas, we’ve just clarified existing information or elaborated upon current practices to include these items formally in the DOs & DON’Ts document. Below I’ll highlight the changes, but be sure you preview the updated DOs & DON’Ts in their entirety.
Membership: A few notable policies that apply to all members have been moved up to the Membership section, like our policy for linking from a shop or profile to another selling venue. Collectives (seller accounts involving multiple people) have been further defined with the categories of Collaboration, Sharing a Shop and Shop Management Help. We clarified our rules for younger Etsians; collectives that include minors under the age of 18 may not utilize community features unless otherwise stated.
Conversations: You may not use Conversations to interfere with a transaction (with details on this in the Transactions section, too). We’ve also elaborated on the definition of “spam” as it relates to Etsy Convos.
Transactions: We’ve added information to the Transactions section, describing the roles of the seller, the buyer and Etsy in a transaction. Additionally, we’ve detailed various concerns or scenarios in which a transaction may be disputed, including: non-payment, non-delivery, refusal of service, dissatisfaction and interference. We’ve also clarified the circumstances in which a transaction may be canceled. In general, the additions to this section outline in greater detail the processes and policies already in place for transactions.
Feedback: To better accommodate custom orders and international transactions, we will be increasing the timeframe for submitting feedback from 90 days to 120 days. (This will go into effect when the policies are “live.”) Additionally, we’ve clarified the circumstances in which Etsy will review feedback for removal, and we’ve lifted the 30-day limitation to requesting a feedback review for policy violation.
Shops and Listings: Formerly called “Selling,” this section has been expanded to include detailed policies about shop set-up, listing items, tagging and specific rules for handmade items, vintage goods and supplies. The section on Tagging is entirely new to the DOs & DON’Ts, but most of this information was available in Etsy’s Help section or through guides posted on Etsy’s blog, The Storque. Expanded sections on rules for handmade, vintage and supplies items should help sellers understand what can be sold on Etsy and how to list items for sale.
Charitable Shops and Listings: Etsy appreciates the spirit of giving back. Due to some laws and the existence of unsavory individuals who may try to take advantage of this spirit, we have added a section for charitable shops and listings.
Prohibited Items: In response to a variety of community concerns, we have clarified our prohibited items list. These items — though they may be handmade, vintage or a crafting supply — are not allowed to be listed for sale on Etsy.
Showcase and Treasury: Making a first time appearance in the DOs & DON’Ts are specific sections for participation in the Showcase and the Treasury. We have gathered information from other areas of the site about these interactive features to formalize as policies in the DOs & DON’Ts.
The DOs & DON’Ts of Etsy, Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, Copyright and Intellectual Property Policy and the Help site all will be updated for consistency. Once we gather your feedback and make any changes, we will launch the final versions of everything together. At that time, we will send an email notice to all members. As stated above, we will also allow a grace period for all members to edit their existing content to comply with any changed policies.
One week later, on October 27, 2009, Etsy announced its fully revised and final version of the D&Ds, and started a fresh discussion thread:
stellaloella says: Today Etsy has put into effect updated policies for the site in the DOs & DON’Ts of Etsy, the Terms of Use, Privacy Policy and Copyright and Intellectual Property Policy. You can read more about this annual policy update - including an overview of the changes - on Etsy’s blog, The Storque: http://www.etsy.com/storque/article/4974/
These are important changes that every Etsy member should review, so we’re sending out an email notification to all members (with millions of members in our community, it may take a few weeks for the emails to reach everyone).
You can view Etsy’s policies in their entirety at these locations:
* DOs & DON’Ts of Etsy: http://www.etsy.com/dosdonts.php
* Terms of Use: http://www.etsy.com/terms_of_use.php
* Privacy Policy: http://www.etsy.com/privacy_policy.php
* Copyright & IP Policy: http://www.etsy.com/copyright_policy.phpThe policies are live and in effect as of today, October 27, 2009; therefore, all your activities or content on Etsy from today forward must be in line with these new policies. We are allowing all members a grace period to bring their existing content (for example: account information, shops, listings) up to speed with any changes in the policies. We also wanted to take into account the timing with the busy holiday season. All members have until the end of the day on December 31, 2009 to edit their content created prior to today’s date (October 27, 2009).
Some of you may recall last week that we provided a preview of the proposed changes to the DOs & DON’Ts of Etsy, one of the main policy documents containing rules for using the site. A big sincere THANK YOU goes out to everyone who read the preview and participated in the resulting discussions in the Forums, email and Conversations. Your feedback was very helpful, and we even made a few tweaks based on your insights.
If you have questions or comments, please join us in the related discussion thread or send email to support [!at] etsy.com.
Discussion thread: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6330324
Posted at 6:51 pm, October 27 2009 EST
Since that time, a number of questions have been raised and some answers given, though several material changes to the policies have continued to generate a great deal of concern. In addition to the official discussion threads linked above, a sampling of threads by community members seeking clarification on two key issues – no more sale cancellations when there has been a return and refund; finished commercial chains being disallowed as a supply – can be found here:
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6338766
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6339177
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6340010
November 7th, 2009 at 12:13 am
Just to kick off the discussion, here is the gist of the new crafting supply rule, as explained by stellaloella ( http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6330324&page=22#post-43906946 ):
>> stellaloella says:
>> wishartglass says on page 20: “could you please clarify whether commercial chains may be sold separately from pendants. I’m concerned about this paragraph from the Do’s and Don’ts: ‘A commercial crafting supply is not a commercial item that, although it may be used in crafting, is ready to use as is (for example: mass-produced clothing, dollhouse furniture and clothing).’”
>> If the commercial chain is complete with a clasp and can be used “as is” as a necklace, then it is not a crafting supply by Etsy’s definition. That would be a finished commercial product. This is the type of item described in the commercial crafting supplies policies in the DOs & DON’Ts.
>> Here are the possibilities for offering chains:
>> — Unfinished bulk-length chain (as an example) would be a legitimate commercial crafting supply on Etsy, as it needs to be modified or combined with other components before it can be used as a finished item.
>> — A handmade chain necklace (for which the Etsy seller combined a length of chain and a clasp, or a chain which the seller made from scratch with wire or links) would be acceptable as a handmade item.
>> — Offering a commercially-made chain necklace in the same listing with a handmade pendant is also acceptable, as this would make it a handmade necklace or a set of items being sold/shipped together.
>> — A vintage (20+ years old) chain necklace would be acceptable to list in the Vintage category. <> We realize that not everyone will love the new policies, and that the policies may have a negative impact on some members’ use of Etsy. We have offered the grace period for content (listings, etc) created before Oct 27 to allow all members to have time to edit or otherwise adjust to any new rules.
>> However, it is important that we preserve the integrity of Etsy as a site and a marketplace. There are many ways in which it is wonderful and convenient that commercial supplies are allowed on Etsy, but there are also many ways in which the commercial supplies category creates conflict for the other areas of the marketplace. The defining line of “what is a commercial crafting supply” needs to be drawn somewhere. We strive to create policies that balance the varied interests of Etsy the company and Etsy the community. <<
(excerpt from here: http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6330324&page=26#post-43910345 )
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This is a new restriction. Etsy has, up ’til now, allowed the sale of unadorned commercially-made finished chain as a supply. Many members who have relied on other sellers to supply them with their chain needs will now have to look elsewhere. Inconvenient for them, a financial loss for supply sellers *and* for Etsy.
This also applies to any other listings which can be used ‘as is’. If it is a finished product in its own right, it may not be sold as a supply. This may prove a rather sticky rule to enforce, as many items, such as stickers and paper products, etc. can be used ‘as is’ but are commonly used in the creation of other items.
I understand the intent of this rule, but I believe it will be an ongoing battle to police and enforce, and will likely alienate a lot of supply sellers.
November 7th, 2009 at 12:54 am
As for the second hot-topic, Etsy has now decided it will no longer cancel a sale for listings that have been returned to the seller and refunded to the buyer.
>> stellaloella says:
>> The DOs & DON’Ts of Etsy define transactions as such: “A transaction is created when a buyer completes Etsy’s checkout process. [...] An Etsy transaction is completed when the buyer pays and the seller ships the item.”
>> Canceling a transaction is linked to refunding a seller their listing and transaction fees. In the case that the buyer wishes to return the item and the seller agrees to a refund, that is still a valid, completed transaction for which Etsy requires fees to be paid by the seller. Etsy has provided a completed transaction service to the seller. If the seller chooses to accept a return and possibly refund the buyer, that does not negate that Etsy has provided an agreed-upon service for which we should be paid.
>> This was not clearly outlined in our policies in the past, and some sellers took advantage of the opportunity to cancel valid, completed transactions for the purpose of avoiding Etsy’s fees or feedback from buyers. We determined it was important to clearly outline the only circumstances in which a transaction is eligible for cancellation in the revised DOs & DON’Ts, which were published on Oct 27.
>> You can find the reasons a transaction may be eligible for cancellation in the DOs & DON’Ts of Etsy, under Transactions > Transaction cancellation: http://www.etsy.com/dosdonts.php#transactions_cancellation
>>Posted at 11:10 am, November 5 2009 EST <<
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=6338766&page=5#post-44181730
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By refusing to cancel these returned/refunded sales, Etsy is penalizing sellers who have generous return policies by keeping the FVF (final value fee) on all these voided sales. This a financially costly move against sellers (not only do they make no money on these transactions, but they are in the hole to Etsy for the FVF), and stands to greatly impact the level of customer service sellers are able to provide, which in turn will likely alienate buyers. There are also legal considerations, as some US states, as well as a number of non-US countries, do not allow sellers to refuse a return. Many sellers have considered adding a restocking fee for returns, but that, too, may be prohibited by law. In addition, this presents a special set of problems for sellers of OOAK listings.
This Etsy rule essentially imposes a new penalty fee on all sellers who accept returned merchandise. (And, as has been pointed out in at least one of the ongoing threads, Etsy has encouraged sellers to accept returns as a measure of excellent customer service.) PayPal returns all fees that have been collected on refunded monies. Even eBay refunds its FVF in such cases. ArtFire, DaWanda, and other similar online venues also refund the FVFs on cancelled returns. Etsy, it appears, stands alone in this new practice. This is especially difficult to swallow, coming on the heels of its Weekend Deals/inflated FVF debacle, in which it collected FVFs on higher pre-sale prices, rather than on the actual selling price.
Sellers have readily conceded that, in the case of a mutual return, Etsy is certainly entitled to keep the original listing fee. But keeping the FVF on a voided sale is unethical, at best.
November 8th, 2009 at 8:11 pm
I received no emails at any of my 3 accounts about the final changes OR the discussion prior to the finalization. It would have been nice if members (all members) had been given the opportunity to discuss the proposed changes, and a week would not have been long enough to do so, not by any means. Personally, I work full-time plus, and I cannot spend every waking hour going over Etsy’s new Dos and Don’ts to ensure they aren’t making drastic changes I disapprove of. I saw stella respond to several comments with “I wish you had told us this during the discussion period” but I don’t think anyone really knew about it unless they’re on the forums constantly. I pop in now and then and I am subscribed to Etsy emails, and yet I never seem to know what’s going on! I feel bad for everyone who are just handling their own business and going to their shop to handle their items because Etsy is changing things right out from under them.
December 24th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
The first change doesn’t impact me much but the double dipping on fees, both in the case of returned items and on gift certificates, makes my blood do a slow boil and will ultimately be the cause of me moving to a new venue.
I hate that it took me so long to find this article and respond to it. Good job on putting it up.
December 25th, 2009 at 4:32 pm
Rob(Rokali) says that the double dipping will be halted early in January. Chalk one up for Rob for doing the right thing.