Through comments here on UEN, and other communications, at least three cases [edited for accuracy] two cases we know of firsthand, and another on which we’re trying to get details, have come to light where shops have been suspended or almost suspended due to poor communication within Etsy, or arbitrary decisions made by Etsy based on no rules that we can find, or simple “technical glitches” that Etsy has acknowledged but for which they have not apologized.
Here are some excerpts of two of the stories, with links to the complete descriptions:
MagicJelly’s story (note: a former Featured Seller on Etsy):
A seller DID complain about me - a week & a half after the purchase date for not receiving their parcel, & I’m in Australia & he’s in the US! Instead of referring the buyer to me, giving me the benefit of the doubt or explaining on my behalf that assuming non-delivery was premature, Etsy banned me & issued the buyer with an FBI cyber-crime form to complain about me!
The fact that it was all an Etsy bungle because apparently they sent me warning emails that I never got because their system wasn’t working, & 2 people were working on the case & didn’t tell each other (one of whom I was in contact with), etc, is not the point. The point is, do Etsy, as a venue, have a legal right to basically force a seller to refund or re-send? Refunding to a dissatisfied buyer is a COURTESY, it is a discretionary policy that each seller must decide on, & nowhere in Etsy’s terms does it state that sellers must do so. If it did, we’d all be vulnerable to potential buyer dishonesty. Many of us do offer refunds, etc, but that is OUR choice & OUR policy, not something Etsy should be using standover tactics to enforce!
And if you think having a spotless record will save you, it won’t. I have over 600 transactions & 100% feedback, & one misguided complaint resulted in suspension. link
I’ve been told they issued me with system warnings once a week, but I never got them coz there was something wrong from their end. But I did get the email informing me I was suspended. I was told I was suspended because after the initial complaint, admin hadn’t heard back from “either party”…me, because I hadn’t received the emails, & the buyer because he was out of town. But someone else from admin HAD contacted me & the issue had been resolved…but neither of the two people working on the dispute knew about the other. The buyer returned to find his order had arrived, & all this drama had blown up. link
First of all I was told I was banned as admin assumed I was inactive as I hadn’t answered their emails (the ones I never got!). I pointed out that my shop was obviosuly active as I’d been fulfilling orders, giving & receiving feedback, etc, & they could have tried convoing me, but was told it’s not procedure to follow up on disputes by convo. Wouldn’t that be preferable to erroneously banning someone? And as it happens, the admin person who DID contact me, did so by convo…so procedural rules can be overlooked. link
ScrapScrap’s story:
I, too, was banned last week, albeit temporarily, over a “glitch.” I didn’t even get an apology, just an “Oops, we re-opened your account and are looking into why it happened.” link
I was banned last week as a ‘glitch’ according to Emily.
I was informed on Tuesday (the 10th) that unless I sent a specific buyer (one from hell, I might add) $8+ I would be banned permanently, as a repeat offender! Funny, there wasn’t any offense, let alone being a repeat offender. Fine, dandy. link
On the 5th, everything was hunky-dory. On the 10th, I received a notice that I would be permanently suspended if I didn’t prove the buyer had received an $8.31 refund.
After providing screenshots of my paypal account, and proof of payment to the buyer, Etsy says “No harm, no foul. And the buyer claims they still didn’t get their refund. You really should give them that money”
Anyone that sells is at risk of being suspended, through no fault of their own. And if you’re not already using it, add d/c or tracking to your packages. link
(I’m still getting details on the third incident.)If we know of these incidents only through people who know about the UEN and are comfortable posting here, imagine how many sellers this has happened to, the situations about which we will never know.
Etsy needs to get its act together internally, so the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.
For Etsy’s sellers and buyers, it needs to have clear, consistent, fair, and legal policies and steps to address disputes, so that no-one - buyer or seller - is ignored or over-zealously booted off the site.
Edit: (From Serena) As you read these accounts, please keep in mind that UEN only has access to one side of the story: the seller’s. We have, however, worked hard to verify that account, and this is far too important an issue to go unmentioned.
April 15th, 2007 at 2:20 am
R_____ may have been in constant contact with admin, but he also continued to leave extremely rude retaliatory feedback for people who paid on time and did nothing wrong, and admin apparently didn’t order him to stop doing that. He also continued to not fulfill their orders OR issue refunds, and I don’t recall any of those cheated buyers being given an FBI form to report him. They might have been given it, I can’t say for 100% certainty they were not, but many of them posted on the forums and gave many other details about what they had tried so far and how they had gotten no response from etsy support, so I’d think if anyone had been given an FBI form, that would have made it to the forums. He may have been in constant contact with admin but they either did not “order” him to give refunds or they did order him and he ignored those orders. So I’m really not clear what benefit this “constant contact” was to all his customers who don’t have either their money or a T-shirt to show for their months of waiting.
April 15th, 2007 at 1:13 am
Kate, I’m really glad you & Amanda have spoken up. It was Amanda’s case & also discussing it with KateBlack that encouraged me to say something. I didn’t even know about UEN until a few days ago. I agree re. the sense of shame - even when you know you’ve done nothing wrong. And this whole experience has prompted me to look at other venues too. I’m really glad there are so many intelligent sellers here who can discuss this rationally…it really makes me feel better about everything.
In regards to the FBI form. I am shocked that Etsy encourage buyers to lodge it before any offense has been proven. I asked that the buyer be contacted by Etsy with a retraction, but I don’t know if it was done because the buyer was pretty confused as to what was going on when he finally accessed his email. The buyer kindly wrote to Rob though, explaining that he had received his order…I don’t know if Rob replied.
To me, the issue isn’t whether the FBI have any jurisdiction in Australia - I wasn’t particularly afraid of being slammed in jail, knowing I hadn’t done anything wrong - but I was appalled that Etsy would issue that form to buyers under the circumstances. When I brought up my concerns re. this, I was told not to worry, that the buyer obviosuly wouldn’t complain because there was no offense committed - but that’s not the point! The point is the form is issued before any wrong doing is proven. The point is, Etsy is not protecting its customers - the sellers - or showing any kind of loyalty or giving us teh benefit of the doubt. The point is, a spotless sales history doesn’t seem to make any difference. Instead, they’re intervening & encouraging disgruntled buyers to take action without a shred of proof.
As for R_____. I mentioned him in relation to my case, as I was wondering why the axe fell on me so swiftly when he was allowed to trade for so long. The reason given was that he was in constant email contact with admin, where as I ignored their emails (the reason being that due to system error, I didn’t receive them!). This makes no sense to me.
April 15th, 2007 at 1:05 am
A lot of this makes me think of a point I made in a previous comment here, which is that Etsy needs to better manage its public relations with sellers (and all members, really). A PR professional would surely make huge steps forward in settling these sorts of matters more amicably and easing communication between Etsy and its members - I’m not talking about PR spin, but more clearly and consistently communicating the right message and easing relations.
There also needs to be an understanding that mistakes like this take time to be healed - a couple of apologetic or explanatory posts buried in the forum somewhere (or even in the blog) aren’t suddenly going to make everything okay and turn now worried or angry people into evangelist Etsians all over again.
But a long enough period of honest, consistent and visible communication which is given time to sink in and is backed up by actions which confirm it to be true will heal these sorts of things and hopefully make it all less painful for all concerned.
April 15th, 2007 at 12:57 am
You ladies are definitely brave to come forward with all that has happened.
April 15th, 2007 at 12:53 am
I wasn’t going to come forward until I had seen that it had happened to 2 other sellers. There is a sense of shame, even when you have done nothing wrong.
Oddly enough, I was also feaatured on the front page this week; perhaps that is etsy’s way of making amends? Supplies are rarely featured.
I’m cautiously optimistic about continuing with etsy. I learned long ago not to put all my eggs in one basket.
April 15th, 2007 at 12:51 am
:(
April 15th, 2007 at 12:50 am
I have another case about which to post, and another still under investigation. *sigh*
April 15th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Karena - I’m glad you came forward. It is a brave thing to do but it is informing the community of possible areas of concern out there.
April 15th, 2007 at 12:41 am
LOL empress!
April 15th, 2007 at 12:40 am
It reeks of inconsistency once more.
I saw a rather sad forum thread today (cannot link as the site is down) which started out saying that the OP was worried if she could ask this on an Etsy forum in case admin jumped on her (it was in a thread asking for other venues other than Etsy to sell on I think) …. people are worried and the inconsistencies/lack of concrete examples or info go no way to reassuring them.