Through comments here on UEN, and other communications, at least three cases [edited for accuracy] two cases we know of firsthand, and another on which we’re trying to get details, have come to light where shops have been suspended or almost suspended due to poor communication within Etsy, or arbitrary decisions made by Etsy based on no rules that we can find, or simple “technical glitches” that Etsy has acknowledged but for which they have not apologized.
Here are some excerpts of two of the stories, with links to the complete descriptions:
MagicJelly’s story (note: a former Featured Seller on Etsy):
A seller DID complain about me - a week & a half after the purchase date for not receiving their parcel, & I’m in Australia & he’s in the US! Instead of referring the buyer to me, giving me the benefit of the doubt or explaining on my behalf that assuming non-delivery was premature, Etsy banned me & issued the buyer with an FBI cyber-crime form to complain about me!
The fact that it was all an Etsy bungle because apparently they sent me warning emails that I never got because their system wasn’t working, & 2 people were working on the case & didn’t tell each other (one of whom I was in contact with), etc, is not the point. The point is, do Etsy, as a venue, have a legal right to basically force a seller to refund or re-send? Refunding to a dissatisfied buyer is a COURTESY, it is a discretionary policy that each seller must decide on, & nowhere in Etsy’s terms does it state that sellers must do so. If it did, we’d all be vulnerable to potential buyer dishonesty. Many of us do offer refunds, etc, but that is OUR choice & OUR policy, not something Etsy should be using standover tactics to enforce!
And if you think having a spotless record will save you, it won’t. I have over 600 transactions & 100% feedback, & one misguided complaint resulted in suspension. link
I’ve been told they issued me with system warnings once a week, but I never got them coz there was something wrong from their end. But I did get the email informing me I was suspended. I was told I was suspended because after the initial complaint, admin hadn’t heard back from “either party”…me, because I hadn’t received the emails, & the buyer because he was out of town. But someone else from admin HAD contacted me & the issue had been resolved…but neither of the two people working on the dispute knew about the other. The buyer returned to find his order had arrived, & all this drama had blown up. link
First of all I was told I was banned as admin assumed I was inactive as I hadn’t answered their emails (the ones I never got!). I pointed out that my shop was obviosuly active as I’d been fulfilling orders, giving & receiving feedback, etc, & they could have tried convoing me, but was told it’s not procedure to follow up on disputes by convo. Wouldn’t that be preferable to erroneously banning someone? And as it happens, the admin person who DID contact me, did so by convo…so procedural rules can be overlooked. link
ScrapScrap’s story:
I, too, was banned last week, albeit temporarily, over a “glitch.” I didn’t even get an apology, just an “Oops, we re-opened your account and are looking into why it happened.” link
I was banned last week as a ‘glitch’ according to Emily.
I was informed on Tuesday (the 10th) that unless I sent a specific buyer (one from hell, I might add) $8+ I would be banned permanently, as a repeat offender! Funny, there wasn’t any offense, let alone being a repeat offender. Fine, dandy. link
On the 5th, everything was hunky-dory. On the 10th, I received a notice that I would be permanently suspended if I didn’t prove the buyer had received an $8.31 refund.
After providing screenshots of my paypal account, and proof of payment to the buyer, Etsy says “No harm, no foul. And the buyer claims they still didn’t get their refund. You really should give them that money”
Anyone that sells is at risk of being suspended, through no fault of their own. And if you’re not already using it, add d/c or tracking to your packages. link
(I’m still getting details on the third incident.)If we know of these incidents only through people who know about the UEN and are comfortable posting here, imagine how many sellers this has happened to, the situations about which we will never know.
Etsy needs to get its act together internally, so the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.
For Etsy’s sellers and buyers, it needs to have clear, consistent, fair, and legal policies and steps to address disputes, so that no-one - buyer or seller - is ignored or over-zealously booted off the site.
Edit: (From Serena) As you read these accounts, please keep in mind that UEN only has access to one side of the story: the seller’s. We have, however, worked hard to verify that account, and this is far too important an issue to go unmentioned.
April 15th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Wow.
And not in a good way.
I gotta ask myself I I can continue to sell there with this much risk.
What should be simple is complex, what should be complex is simple.
It’s maddening.
I need an etsy-a-like website run by smart women.
UEN, you ever think of adding a shopping cart? ;p
April 15th, 2007 at 12:39 am
Exactly my point! I was trying to make these points to admin as we emailed back & forth re. my erroneous ban & they failed to address these important issues. The issue of the suspension was bad enough, but it was all the underlying problems that came to light that troubled me more. But I was basically told to get over it & move on.
I struggled with whether to discuss what happened publicly. But considering I didn’t receive satisfactory answers, it was something I still wanted to get to the bottom of. When ebbandflo was muted hot on the heels of my suspension, it really highlighted to me that there are some serious internal problems, so I decided to discuss my experience publicly. People need to know what can happen.
Like someone mentioned previously, I too have felt loyal to Etsy & have been really evangelical about what a great place it is. I have been given so much support in regards to being a feature seller, having frontpage appearances (one today too!), etc…so I’ve actually felt ungrateful for raising my concerns & a bit of a traitor. I’m not relishing any of this. I feel sad & disappointed about the way I was treated, & it feels like a friendship turned sour. I wish I could turn back the clock to before the suspension when I was totally contented & grateful for all that Etsy had done for me & my career.
April 15th, 2007 at 12:21 am
That’s a good point. Seller’s aren’t given the same accommodation or level of concern when they have non-paying buyers or buyers who receive the merchandise then reverse the payment. There’s no recourse for sellers to get paid. Why such severe action for sellers dictating the seller’s policies? Of course, I don’t want to see unscrupulous sellers taking buyers’ money, but I don’t understand the “shoot first, ask questions later” approach for sellers.
I don’t understand that either. And I find it particularly frustrating considering Etsy hasn’t even found the idea of individual seller policies to even be important enough to warrant a policy page in stores. I was astounded during site development that seller policies weren’t even relevant enough to include them in the page design. Yet, suddenly when there is a problem Etsy finds seller policies a spotlight issue to the point of interfering and mandating specifics.
On one hand the new Etsy terms continually state they’re a venue with no responsibility for the transaction. On the other hand they’re becoming actively involved with the buyer’s purchase. Etsy can’t jump from side to side as it suits them at the moment. It reminds me of how they say they are transparent and open to feedback when they’re unsure what to do, but then when the feedback is negative or specific answers are requested suddenly they’re no longer a “democracy”. I don’t think such actions are meant to be shady or underhanded, but they still leave a sense of mistrust with members.
April 15th, 2007 at 12:05 am
It seems like this kind of interfering action creates a dangerous precedent, not just dangerous for us but more dangerous for THEM because they risk losing their “venue” status and they absolutely cannot lose that or it opens them up to all kinds of liability.
April 14th, 2007 at 11:58 pm
they don’t have the authority, JB, but they have a stipulation that says they can cancel your account at any time, and it looks like they’re willing and ready to hold that over our heads to get what they want… this is very disturbing.
April 14th, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Yes, I Reckon there are some cases where etsy can step in but that was when the person had 50+ negatives, it truly was a repeat offender. Just the abusive feedback left for buyers ALONE should have been grounds for banning.
The two cases here were banned for single “offenses” (which were actually not even offenses), in one case banned after the buyer received item and in the other banned after 2 refunds had been made. And etsy is *not even reading* the emails from the sellers telling their side of the story.
It just seems like etsy is always over-correcting. Like they drift a bit to the left and then make a sharp right to correct it, and end up in a ditch. They didn’t do enough about R___ soon enough, they let that situation go on far too long, so now they are over correcting by banning people too quickly without any warning.
They let the forums get out of control for too long and then over-corrected by muting someone for the mildest of posts.
MIDDLE PATH, etsy! Moderation is what is needed here.
April 14th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
ditto the lack of efficient tracking from Canada for shipments. I’ve been told tracking will only work as far as the border though with the more expensive methods of shipping via CanadaPost you can get some sort of delivery confirmation in the US. Tracking outside of N America is prohibitively expensive and would require courier or approx $35 plus shipping fees.
Not all postal systems have an easily added delivery and tracking service in the same wy that USPS apparently has. It worries me that on a supposedly global website global situations are being judged on US terms.
April 14th, 2007 at 11:43 pm
I am very confused as to how etsy has any authority to enforce refunds or otherwise interfere in payments when they explicitly state they are a VENUE and not a retailer. They never step in to force nonpaying buyers to pay up, they will only reverse the transaction so you get your fees back. How does etsy have the authority to mandate refunds when each shop has their own refund policy?
April 14th, 2007 at 11:36 pm
Thank you for the update, Elizabeth.
I am worried too, because my 700+ positive feedback will not be taken into consideration. All a buyer has to do is file a complaint to Etsy and BAM! I will be suspended. That is horrifying.
I just noticed the FBI notice after reading Dyno’s post. Indeed, horrifying.
God knows what will happen tomorrow.
PS: Etsy is now down, without notice. I was just surfing and now I see:
What’s happening: We’re investigating some issues and trying to clean some settings up.
Estimated downtime: 11:30PM EST - 12:30PM EST
April 14th, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Also, I was just thinking that I Reckon there are circumstances in which a seller should absolutely be banned by Etsy for non-delivery or for seriously unreasonable delays. But this should be the exception - the obvious train wreck of a shop with a number of negatives, with lots of complaints, etc..
And even in those circumstances contact should be made with the seller to find out what’s going on as part of an investigation by Etsy.