Hints of behind-the-scenes edits of ’sold’ listings have surfaced recently in the Etsy fora. Today, Etsy member quirke asked pointedly (twice) for confirmation or denial that this was practiced/condoned by Etsycorp. The first thread was closed quickly, without explanation, by Etsy’s on-staff lawyer, SaraSays. The second, however, was answered truthfully, and at some length, by admin and co-founder Matt.
matt says:
Howdy,
I want to start off by apologizing for closing an earlier thread on this subject. Since we do not publicly discuss individual private matters, we thought that was the best course of action at the moment. That said, in doing so we did not address the questions you were asking, and I would hate for a bit of misinformation to create a great deal of speculation (yes, I know that closing a thread does not help matters). So, If I may, I would like to speak to your concerns here.
As a general policy we do and will not alter any sold listing records. I completely agree that this is inappropriate and of questionable ethics.
So, have we ever? Yes.
In extremely rare occasions and in our best efforts to responsibly comply with the DMCA (http://www.etsy.com/copyright_policy.php), we have had to remove text or images from a sold listing .
We have never removed the entire listing itself or altered the statistics or data of an individual shop or of Etsy as a whole.
While, obviously, I can not discuss these specific cases, I am happy to try to answer any other questions you may have on the subject and certainly invite you to email me at matt [!at] etsy.com . I also encourage you to check out our policies here for further clarification: http://www.etsy.com/copyright_policy.php
Thanks, Matt
Posted at 6:46 pm, June 11 2008 EST
For a bit of background on this issue, see here and here.
UPDATE by GreenMamba 6-13-08:
After two shut-downs, a third thread has been started by quirke, asking general questions about the practice and ramifications of editing ’sold’ listings.
And a fourth . . .
And a fifth, by another Etsy member . . .
June 16th, 2008 at 2:18 am
The store was closed earlier today, please see the updated article:
http://etsynews.com/698/allegations-of-fraud-on-etsy/
she was not reselling the beads in the supplies category, all her sold items were in the glass category
http://www.etsy.com/view_transaction.php?transaction_id=8440928
which is supposed to be only for items handmade by you.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:02 am
The seller in question is showing up as a brick wall for me now.
June 16th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Good point, Windy, and that is probably right-she is buying stuff and selling it as supplies. I never thought of that really,.
June 15th, 2008 at 9:30 am
You nailed it, JB. Not only did the seller in this specific set of instances allegedly violate multiple Terms of Use multiple times, but Etsy covered it up. They erased the record of (alleged) intentional fraud, thereby not only protecting the seller, but in essence condoning the fraudulent behavior.
Etsy’s credibility has been soundly shaken by this. Their actions have been wholly inappropriate and highly unethical. As I asked before, where is the support they claim to have for the independent artisan? And since when did reselling become the pet cause for Etsy?
Of all the online marketplaces catering to, or at least providing a venue for, handmade goods, Etsy is the only one that I am aware of which has a mission statement that unequivocally states:
http://www.etsy.com/about.php
They couldn’t have moved in a direction that is any further from, and opposed to, that mission statement. And such blatant disregard for their own rules is beyond comprehension. How can they treat some of the most creative members of their precious community with such disdain???
I am completely sick over this.
June 15th, 2008 at 4:25 am
If indeed she did lie about who made the beads, (not once but many times) then each time she did it would be a violation of the Etsy TOU. The handmade beads category is for beads you made yourself. I don’t see how this is any different than the stores selling mass-produced imported goods and listing them under handmade. Those stores get closed down for violating the TOU, why isn’t this one?
June 14th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
“We recognize that Etsy is a young company and needs to constantly strive to improve the clarity and comprehensiveness of its policies. Your questions are stimulating a discussion here about possible improvements to our policies. As always, Etsy will inform the Community of any changes we make.”
Boy, have they changed their tune in the last couple of months, eh? :)
June 14th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
If [t]he only thing she did was lie about who made the beads . . . . is true, I’d love to post my thoughts on that one, but shouldn’t. I’d also guess there might be a number of people reading about this and similar situations who can’t really post their thoughts publicly either.
OK, outside for me :)
June 14th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
The reason they are ‘protecting’ this seller is very clear to me. The only rule she was breaking was claiming to have made the beads herself. It is perfectly acceptable to buy off ebay and then re-sell it on Etsy as a supply, so they probably should have also changed her category and tags when they changed the rest so it all matches. The only thing she did was lie about who made the beads, to Etsy it was just a matter of clearing up that point.
I’m not saying that it justifies any of this, I’m just trying to take the personal element out of it. Maybe Etsy is actually trying to do the right and fair thing this time, trying not to let the fact that other Etsy sellers are involved influence how they would handle this. If it were just some shmo buying anything and trying to pass it off as handmade, they would either have to either prove they made it, if they didn’t it would have to fit within a category or they would have those items deleted from their shop. If their whole shop was in violation, then the whole shop would be removed.
Now this editing of sold listings, is a whole other ball of wax. I’m no legal eagle, but it doesn’t quite seem right to me. I get changing current listings, but a record of sale is just that a record…and now that record has been altered to reflect something other than what actually took place.
I have to wonder if Sarah is pulling her hair out yet with the antics of the Etsy Circus.
June 14th, 2008 at 3:29 am
No worries bathing!! My post was in response/agreement with MB’s too.
Glad to have you on LE!!! :o)