Today Etsynews has learned of two successful Etsy shops that were deleted under seemingly strange circumstances. This is complete account deletion- the shop is a brick wall. It’s not the same as being muted in the forums. Etsy has warned users with bills over 3 months overdue that their shops will be deleted, but neither of these cases seems to be related to overdue bills. Both sellers have received emails from Etsy which state the reasons for their stores being closed, and they are not bill-related.
All of the information we have about these two cases comes from the sellers. Bear in mind that there are two sides to every story, but Etsy will never discuss the cases in public so we will never hear both sides. Certain facts can be verified using google’s cached pages and posts in public forums.
The first deletion we learned of was Thaidreams.
This is a cached page of her shop on January 12, 2008.
As of January 12, she had 100% positive feedback and had made 466 sales.
She wrote about Etsy closing her shop in her blog here, and she posted the email that Etsy sent her in her blog here.
The reason allegedly given was “a history of conflicts”.
The second deleted shop is still trying to get reinstated, so I cannot publish the shop name.
(update, January 22: Closedshop has posted her full story on page 14 of the comments on this article, and has revealed her shops to be heyprettycupcake and thepromoshop)
They did create a second account “closedshop” to post in the forums about their situation, and Etsy has since deleted that account as well. They (originally) did not publicly reveal their main shop name and UEN will not reveal it either, but I have verified by cached google pages that the shop had 100% positive feedback on January 16, two days ago.
This is their forum post.
They have multiple posts in the thread giving their version of events.
Other sellers in that thread (aorta, automaton, magicjelly) described having similar treatment from Etsy. (shops closed without warning for one lost package)
aorta says:
youstink, a buyer never got something so they filed a report to etsy. i never found out till my shop was closed- brick wall. i talked to admin who explained they send out 3 emails before they close a shop, but i never got those emails so i was shut down.
the admin i talked to did quickly reinstate my shop though.
magicjelly says:
Haven’t read the whole thread yet, but just wanted to add that this exact same thing happened to me last year - a former feature seller with 100% positive feedback, just like Aorta.I phoned NY & my shop was immediately reinstated. I was assured it was human error & that steps would be taken that this kind of thing wouldn’t happen again.
Both closedshop’s buyer and magicjelly’s buyer were told by Etsy to file cybercrime reports with the FBI.
The thread was locked with this admonishment:
RobWhite says:
We can’t discuss specific situations between Etsy admin and members of the Etsy community.For clarification, sellers who have bills that are 2 months overview will not be able to list, relist or renew items in their shops. Sellers who have bills that are 3 months overdue may be suspended. You can find that information in the Storque here: http://www.etsy.com/storque/section/etsyNews/article/billing-alert-a-reminder-about-the-new-policy-for-the-new-ye/858/ , which is also referenced in the most recent post about overdue bills here: http://www.etsy.com/storque/section/etsyNews/article/cant-post-new-listings-overdue-etsy-bill/1038/
We also ask that you do not make alternate accounts on Etsy for the sole purpose of posting in the Forums and/or chat rooms. The best and most expedient way to handle this situation is to contact Abuse at abuse (!at) etsy dot com.
Robwhite later in another thread explained he posted the overdue bill information to answer some general questions from the thread, but NOT to imply that the OP had been deleted for having overdue bills. (which would be a violation of their privacy if that was the case and he had discussed it in public)
previous UEN coverage of shop/account deletions
http://etsynews.com/73/unwarrantedaccidental-shop-suspensions-sellers-be-warned/
http://etsynews.com/75/another-case-of-erroneous-shop-suspension/
http://etsynews.com/80/how-does-admin-handle-shop-suspensions/
http://etsynews.com/312/etsy-says-no-double-billing-has-occurred/?cp=5
(see comments, not main article)
other users who have had shops deleted without warning, although most have been eventually reinstated:
moxierings
walkonthemoon
ScrapScrap
magicjelly
aorta/automaton
retroattic
thepromoshop
heyprettycupcake
Lesliejewelry
update, January 22:
Closedshop has posted her full story here:
Please note again, that this is the seller’s version of events, and UEN does not guarantee the accuracy of comments.
http://etsynews.com/?p=584&cp=14#comments
She has revealed her shop names: heyprettycupcake and thepromoshop. (both accounts are deleted/closed)
Etsy will not be reinstating either shop.
Update January 31:
another case of sudden shop closure: Lesliejewelry
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5444820
That shop has been reopened
January 24th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I would like to suggest that without seeing SamJoe’s feedback, we can’t really see what is going on. We are getting one side of one person’s story, where the person isn’t telling who they are. Now, i’m not saying he should have to, but i am saying that after the incident where thepromoshop said this was all because of a single incident from sept. and now she states that she had orders from June or July that were not filled because the customer did not supply artwork but she didn’t refund, and we can see that clearly there were numerous customers unhappy with the service they did and did not receive. In light of that, i personally have a hard time just taking one person’s word for what happened. That’s me…
January 24th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Thanks for the comments and thoughts guys, I appreciate it…
JB, I completely understand what you’re saying about the other buyers and you might be right. As far as I know I had worked everything out with my buyers BUT my shop was closed before they would have been able to leave unsatisfactory feedback. However, I never received any complaints directly to my email (which I made sure that customers of mine during that week long limbo had) from my buyers so I assumed that all was fine…
On the point of our personal shop policies trumping those of Etsy’s, I find that utter nonsense. My shop policy clearly stated that ONLY when the confirmation numbers for packages provided no help, would I resend a package and since my goods were so expensive (again, not that they were expensive but they were around the $30-40 range) that was the only option. There were of course instances in which I would refund purchases (though I think that may have only happened twice). Anyway, I pointed this out to Emily and again her response was simply that I had a few hours to provide proof that I had refunded my buyer’s purchase or I would forfeit my shop. Now that I read other’s experiences with this kind of thing (though we can’t be sure of the entire story) I am more annoyed yet happy that it’s not something I have to deal with anymore…
January 24th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Samjoe:
You have no idea how worrying all these incidents of shop closure is. I am peeved and perplexed all at the same time because it seems this can happen to any one of us with no way of protecting ourselves as sellers. According to what happened to you, even delivery confirmation won’t help to protect us. This is really frightening and I am terribly sorry this had to happen to you when clearly you were not in the wrong at all!! If any etsy admin is reading this, please PLEASE please clarify things once and for all. Thus is all very frustrating knowing that it can happen to any one of us.
January 24th, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Okay, here’s another one to underscore Etsy’s inconsistency. I ran across a seller who was told a few months ago that their store was going to be closed. But Etsy never closed them, so they kept selling and seem rather surprised that they were allowed to remain open. Not kidding. Convo me for info if you don’t believe me.
Gah, I had a huge stupid post written but I deleted it. Here it is in a nutshell: The biggest issue here is that Etsy does not do ANYTHING consistently.
January 24th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
That is the same ultimatum that several other sellers received, despite them providing proof of reshipping the item. (sellers not listed in the main article here, sellers who wish to remain private)
I find an ultimatum like that totally inappropriate from Etsy if you are following YOUR store policy and the policy was clearly described to the customer.
Now again in Samjoe’s case, there may be more to the case than this one transaction. Samjoe also said that some later orders were delayed and that he/she had emailed all the buyers to explain the delay. It’s possible more than one of them also complained to Etsy. BUT that doesn’t excuse Etsy’s handling of this one transaction where you already reshipped the item and had proof of delivery for BOTH shipments. (plus it must have been proof of delivery to the confirmed paypal address, if you prevailed in the paypal dispute)
Regardless of any other delayed orders or complaining customers, Etsy’s ultimatum to you regarding THIS case was inappropriate.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
It does appear that there were issues with thepromoshop that Etsy needed to deal with. What I take issue with is that Etsy should have been absolutely 100% certain of the facts and communicated them, in a professional manner, to Vanessa. They bungled the delivery, targeted the wrong shop, confused the seller - and did all of this over a long weekend. They should have behaved in a businesslike and logical fashion, been accurate about the issue at hand, and given adequate voice to Vanessa’s side of the story. The ultimate outcome may not have been any different, but a whole mess of fear and angst could have been avoided.
As for thaidreams, if a ‘history of conflicts’ was the reason given, then forum banning should have been the result - not store closure.
Now we are learning of yet another shop, SamJoe, closed as a result of a single complaint – something which Etsy has said it will not (generally) do. And yet that is precisely what they have done. Makes one wonder how many other horror stories are out there . . .
Furthermore it seems absolutely ridiculous for a company that touts its humanity to have no official means of appeal in cases of muting, banning and deletion.
The rule enforcement on Etsy - and in many instances, admin understanding of the rules - is all over the map. Etsy has no consistent policy on anything. Despite TOU, D&Ds, Guidelines or what have you, everything is done on a ‘case-by-case’ basis, which is the same as having no policy or procedure at all. And because of Etsy’s bungling of these issues, and a growing history of closing shops in error, they continue to erode the trust between itself and the members.
Brief sidetrack:
Interesting that Etsy is determined to delete shops over one disgruntled buyer and without having a proper dialogue with the seller, yet they completely ignored - for months – the ‘design flaw’ that allowed them to pocket a seller’s .20 renew/relist fee on certain listings, without delivering the contracted four month listing time. In some cases, not only did the seller get NO time, but time was subtracted, depending on the length of time the item had been inactive. Some sellers lost more than a single fee for the same item in multiple attempts to relist. Soooo, it’s apparently okay for Etsy to take money without delivering the ‘goods’.
Shame. Shame. Shame.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Wow, that’s awful, SamJoe. You did everything right as far as I can tell so I really don’t get it at all.
January 24th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
JB, I was under the same impressions as you. I assumed that Paypal closing the complaint would have helped cool admin down but no such luck. I was basically told that I could refund her money OR my shop would be closed…and not hours after the email from Emily detailing this, sure enough, my store was gone.
I haven’t checked if that buyer is still active on Etsy but really, even if they are, there would have been not much I could do to warn other sellers, especially when it’s been proven over and over again that it’s nearly impossible for those that strictly buy from Etsy to get banned permanently. The whole situation was immensely frustrating to me, especially since I had decided to take a year off college to pursue this as a career when I started doing so well.
I’ll give Etsy this: We all know there’s no venue for which those of us that sell our work can get so much amazing exposure and most of the time support, but to me, in dealing with admin over this, they seemed incredibly juvenile and callous about how this would effect a seller that was making a living through their services that I was paying for. It still sucks but there’s nothing to be done I suppose and honestly, after what’s happened, I just didn’t pursue getting my shop reinstated by refunding my buyer (though I was already out over $60 for the goods I had sent) because I didn’t want to be there anymore…
January 24th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Samjoe said:
Samjoe, that is disturbing. Etsy has recently said that it will not force refunds or replacing the item if you can prove you shipped it. They also recently said that they will honor the store’s policies, that your individual policies trump theirs. That may indeed be their “general” policy but they deviate from that policy as often as they wish. You not only proved shipment, but also had proof of delivery. In cases like that I really think it’s best for Etsy to step out and let paypal mediate the dispute, since paypal handles the money and paypal has a defined, impartial process in place for resolving disputes. In fact the majority of paypal disputes are settled in favor of the buyer, so for you, the seller, to prevail, you really must have all your ducks in a row.
Buyers like that scare me, because they could pull the same scam on repeated sellers and we have no protection. You lost two items and your whole business, and they are no doubt still active on Etsy. :(
January 24th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Vanessa- I looked at the cached feedback for thepromoshop, not only for the first page but also the 2nd page, the 3rd page you had a few neutrals from November for orders placed in September. It looks like between the 2nd and 3rd page is where everything went to pot.
I understand that you were moving and all, and didn’t have your own computer set up, but when you look back on it all now, Do you wish you had maybe gone to the library or somewhere they have a public computer and logged on to let clients know what was up?
The feedback is really bad on those 2 pages, and a lot of it stems, I think, from buyers feeling like they were left high and dry. Some attempt to explain things would have been better than none at all. Sure some buyers would still be dissappointed that they didn’t get their items, but not so much as to write feedback like that.