There have been more instances of this problem, seemingly beyond Admin’s earlier explanation, with no input from Admin as of yet on these new instances, captured with screenshots. Please see UEN’s earlier post for the situation, plus the new updates.
EDIT: Admin’s many locks and responses are reposted in comments below.
EDIT (by starrydesigns): Read about the latest incident here.
EDIT: (by Soap) - latest update here - click.
July 24th, 2007 at 3:45 pm
I think stella is perfectly fine and I have no problem in her replies in the ideas, help, buying and selling forums. It’s only the bugs forum that I would prefer someone with more technical knowledge to reply, when technical knowledge is needed.
And by reply, I mean: ask pertinent questions, collect information, speak to users as the adults they are, and give updates for ongoing bugs and issues. I don’t mean say there’s no problem and lock the thread.
In general, bug reports is a specialized area of customer service. You don’t necessarily need developers moderating it because they don’t always have the best people skills and are better utilized in fixing the bugs. (they generally make a LOT more money than CS too, so you don’t want to waste their time!) Also, developers usually like to have their data presented in very compact, formal nuggets. They are used to reading technical specs and they communicate differently than normal humans. Most users present data in a “messy” format, with lots of irrelevant info, telling their feelings, etc. The facts are often there, but they are buried in a narrative. Developers do not like narratives.
You can have customer service staff moderating bug reports, but they should be trained on how to collect information, what questions to ask, etc. They need to sift through the narratives and collect the pertinent nuggets of data. Then they compile the information in a nice clean organized format and present it to the developers. Customer service staff are the liaisons between customers and developers- they are almost translators, if you will. But they need to know both languages fluently, to be good translators. They need to know how to speak human, and how to speak developer. Stella is clearly fluent in human, but I’m not sure they have really trained her in speaking developer. I’ve not seen her asking the types of questions that need to be asked, but perhaps that is being done privately through email.
July 24th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
(My post was cut short - which has happened before. I must be doing something wrong?? Or could be my connection – I’ve had DSL issues for weeks now. In any case, here is the rest.)
Of course, there is no way of knowing whether my recent comment had any influence on the way admins respond, or who is delegated to tackle which topics. But I certainly did not mean for stella to be used as the middle-man. It would be helpful, and appropriate, to have seasoned, knowledgeable techies or programmers or engineers give comments in their respective areas of expertise. It does rankle to be treated as “children who need a lollipop”. And I, for one, do not feel comfortable fussing at stella, who is, after all, simply doing what she’s told. No one wants to come across as, or be accused of being, a bully. So, I suppose the admin strategy of calming the masses is at least partially successful. And very frustrating.
Wow. Was that a hijack or what?
July 24th, 2007 at 12:30 pm
retroattic, I understand the frustration you feel at having very complicated and/or technical issues addressed by an Etsy admin who may not necessarily have the expertise to comment. I don’t personally have an issue with stellaloella - she is a pleasant and calming presence. But (and this is my personal opinion) I do feel she is used, perhaps unfairly, as a buffer - or shield - between the members who are seeking real answers, and the admins who prefer to be virtually tight-lipped.
I find it to be quite unfortunate that, when admin gleans new staff from the Etsy membership, it can result in that member sacrificing a great deal. Stella, for instance (according to her shop announcement), has had no time to pursue her potterycraft, etc. since joining the Etsy team. So, the very thing that attracted her to Etsy is now, in a sense, denied her. It must be equal parts joy and nightmare to be in such a situation. (Pure speculation on my part. That is simply how I am sure I would feel in such a position.)
A few days ago, during the brief commotion over the changing of shop names, I commented in one of the threads regarding RD’s often inappropriate forum responses. I did not name him, but I think it was obvious whom I was referring to. This is what I wrote:
>> One concern: perhaps it would be best, when such delicate issues come to light in the fora, that only certain designated admins make a response - or at the very least, that the responding admin has consulted with and gotten official approval for said response? When the hint of inconsistency and misinformation appears - accompanied by an admin badge and a hasty lock - it has the potential to stir up contention, conjecture, strife and ill-will. Whereas a carefully considered and forthright comment can - even if the comment isn’t what the masses want to hear - help foster good relations between the powers-that-be and the Etsy membership.
Consistency is key.
Posted at 1:18 pm, July 21 2007 EST
July 24th, 2007 at 7:53 am
GreenMamba said,
July 23, 2007 @ 4:53 pm
Well, alex, I suppose that is always an option. Unfortunate. I hope that is not what it will take to get the admins to not only take this - and the users - seriously, but to stop patronizing us with false or misleading info.
________
Well, one would always hope that going to the BBB wouldn’t be necessary. But it’s useful to know that it’s there and can help if it’s really needed. I’ve used them once before - two or three years back - and they are effective.
Of course, if Etsy take this seriously and resolve it that would be the best solution all round.
July 24th, 2007 at 7:16 am
Facade, yes V2 was implemented November 2006 (the 11th or so). Prior to that, Etsy was in Beta from conception (June 2005).
I am really curious to see those threads you mentioned. If you don’t want to post them here, perhaps you could forward them to me via convo? Honestly, the technical problems I recall about Beta were more about stability than anything else. But I don’t remember details very well, (life moves too fast for me lately).
July 24th, 2007 at 3:08 am
GreenMamba, thinking of worst case scenarios is not sensationalism. In fact, prudent web designers and programmers should do this when designing any site.
For example: Lots of people would like to use trackers like google analytics or sitemeter on their etsy shops. Or on their myspace pages. me among them.
But those third-party trackers use javascripts. Those trackers are benign and harmless, but if etsy and myspace allowed javascripts, then people could also use malicious scripts which can do things like steal your session cookie, redirect you to another site which looks like etsy/myspace but isn’t, etc. Or javascripts can do harmless but annoying mischievous things like replacing text on the page with other words, replacing images, etc. That’s why neither etsy nor myspace allows javascript.
Javascripts have some very useful and harmless uses, and some malicious and dangerous uses. You can’t assume that all users are nice people, you have to think about the worst case scenario even if it’s only .001 % of users who have the knowledge and skill and motives to use malicious scripts. Prudent designers build their site with worst case scenarios in mind at all times. At my work, any time the programmers have assumed users are not smart enough to figure out how to exploit something, they are proved wrong and it’s often a 15 year old kid that finds the loophole! If there is any hole, someone WILL find it and the worst case scenario WILL happen eventually.
Even if 99% of etsy users are nice and wouldn’t mess around in my account, it’s the 1% of evil users that you have to design around. Unfortunately, this happens all around the world and all through life, the minority of bad people ruin things for the rest of us but that is life. It’s not sensationalism to bring attention to the “what ifs”. It’s better to think of those “what ifs” before they happen, then try to clean up the mess after they happen!
July 24th, 2007 at 2:13 am
GreenMamba, I agree with you 100%. I was just stating how I perceive the situation. I think the stance they are taking is completely ignorant. I also find the use of Stella to diffuse these threads very insulting. Anytime a controversial issue arises Stella comes to the rescue, everyone gives her great praise and the issue at hand is forgotten for the time being. Admin know that in most users eyes Stella can do no wrong and they are using that like we are children who need a lollipop to shut us up. Unless something drastically changes (which I don’t see happening) I believe this sort of thing will be Etsy’s downfall. They can bury their head in the sand all they want but everyday there are more and more digruntled users and Etsy’s reputation will gradually spread by word of mouth. I have already seen many people talk about Etsy’s poor customer service and buggy site being discussed on other crafting forums though I have not witnessed this personally.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:51 am
*****
JB said,
July 24, 2007 @ 1:12 am
Why are there *any* bug reports in the forum without an admin reply? I know that in the help forum and buying and selling, most of it is users helping users, they are the same questions again and again, and not every post needs an admin reply. But in my opinion the bug forum should have 100% coverage, an admin should be reading every single thread and unless someone else has already answered the question (I mean resolved it), they should be replying to every thread too.
*****
Excellent point. Why, indeed?
July 24th, 2007 at 1:12 am
wow I never saw those 2 cases before. That brings up a question: Why are there *any* bug reports in the forum without an admin reply? I know that in the help forum and buying and selling, most of it is users helping users, they are the same questions again and again, and not every post needs an admin reply. But in my opinion the bug forum should have 100% coverage, an admin should be reading every single thread and unless someone else has already answered the question (I mean resolved it), they should be replying to every thread too.
The bugs forum does not move as fast as other forums, there’s usually only about one new page of posts per day. It wouldn’t be impossible for a staff member to go through it once a day and check anything less than 24 hours old. That would only take about an hour a day. It wouldn’t need a whole new staff person or anything drastic.
Too much is slipping through the cracks.
February 12 2007
stellabelladesigns got into katiejohnson’s store
I can’t actually find any account by that name but maybe she spelled it wrong? It was a jewelry shop.
possibly katejonesjewelry.
February 17 2007
hazelwoodhill gets into another user’s shop repeatedly- the other shop is not named.
http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.php?thread_id=5166279&page=4
melisap has continued to get logged into the other user’s shop, always the same user. She could not get any further than the first tier (your etsy), could not get into account info or other personal data.
July 24th, 2007 at 1:12 am
(sorry for typos - it is late and I’m a virtual zombie just now)